Hi all,
Sorry to report that it looks like we will have to take a break from the Monday Night Net for a while.
Despite the best efforts of the Essex Repeater Group, the GB3DA repeater has not been in a usable state for several months now, and the temporary home of GB3ER hasn’t been working as well as hoped. Apologies to all of our regulars, but as you’ll appreciate, the problems with GB3DA are out of our control.
The decision to take a break follows the Net on GB3ER on Monday the 1st of July. Only four participants joined in the first 90 minutes, which is significantly lower than when the net was on GB3DA. Each week, we get messages from frustrated participants unable to join the net on 70cm, either due to a lack of equipment, problems accessing GB3ER, or they are outside of the coverage area.
The state of GB3DA
As most of you know, the GB3DA repeater was the home of the Monday Night Net for some time, and attendance of 15 to 20 people was pretty common.
The noise problems on GB3DA continue, making the repeater unusable for our net. Problems have persisted for several weeks now, and we have no information on when the repeater will be restored to working condition. As well as disruption to the Essex Ham Monday Night Net, nets run by other groups in Essex have been affected, including CARS and TARG nets. Here is a comment received on our site during our net this week, which seems to sum up the mood:
“When will GB3DA ever get fixed? It’s been playing up since Feb this year. It does not take four months to gain entry to the building,will some one please say what is going to be done if anything,if they don’t want to fix it then shut it down for good as it is unusable most of the time. It’s sad as this is a popular repeater my grandfather used it when I was a child sad to see it be left in this sorry state”
The last official news we heard was announced at the June 2013 club night of the Thames ARG, where there was a short debate about the GB3DA repeater. Justin G0KSC outlined his theory that the ongoing noise issues are related to the cavities being out of tune (more: GB3DA Noise Issues).
Clive and Norman from the Essex Repeater Group committee confirmed that they are still not sure if the problem is internal to the site, or due to an external influence. The site for GB3DA in Danbury is owned by Arqiva, and the repeater keepers currently don’t have access to the building to perform tests or maintenance. According to ERG, getting access to the Arqiva site, may apparently cost the Essex Repeater Group up to £2000, which is just not an option for them at this time.
The Essex Repeater Group site appears not to have updated its members on the problem for over three months now, with a message dated March 2013 stating “ERG is very aware of an issue affecting GB3DA (which may not be a simple squelch issue). Investigations are in hand.”
In response to your requests and comments, we’re working on a new webpage where we can share information on the current status of GB3DA, to keep Essex Hams up-to-date with the current situation. As soon as any more information is forthcoming, we’ll do our best to let you know via Essex Ham. If you have any information to share, or suggestions, please add a comment below, or drop us a message
We’ve been asked to make it clear that the Essex Repeater Group is run by volunteers. ERG is run by a small team with limited funds raised from its membership.
Next Steps for Monday Night Net?
We have been using the GB3ER 70cm repeater for some weeks now, but it is apparent that many of our former participants cannot access this repeater. Seemingly, GB3ER lacks the range, and some of you lack the kit or antenna needed to work 70cm.
We’ve toyed with other 2m repeaters, but none have the ability to cover Essex as well as GB3DA used to. We tried, then abandoned, an Echolink experiment, so that’s not an option either.
Rather than let the Monday Night Net dwindle away to nothing tucked away on 70cm, it seems that it may be the right time to park the Monday Night Net, at least until we can find a working 2m repeater that is usable by enough of our participants.
Options including using repeaters in Kent, or making the net less frequent have been proposed, as has switching to an Internet-based net. We’re happy to consider all options. Any thoughts? Please add them below…
I’m very sad to see the end of the Monday Night Net but I understand your thinking. UK Repeater site still shows GB3DA as “operational” – what a joke. I’ve just fired off a “no it isn’t” thing on their Status page. Feel free to do the same! http://www.ukrepeater.net/my_repeater.php?id=63
Hi Pete
You may be right, to give life to a net, there should be a good selection of stations to give a mix of views.
I must say that I have found it a great place to start my amateur radio. It will always give a place for the newbies make their error and get the support some of us need to get going.
I know you will do the best for radio.
Cheers
Steve
M6UEH
OK here’s my opinion, firstly no-one should be posting DA as off air as it is not, it might be classed as degraded but this should solely be the responsibility of the keeper to decide to notify as you possibly could jeopardise DA’s frequency allocation permanently. I used it this morning no problem to note. Yes there is an issue that arises and goes and the repeater group is fully aware and dealing as best they can. Access is a problem faced by the whole industry, I work in cellular and we quite often have access issues that go on for some time. It’s frustrating but a fact of life that you have to deal with. My employer has permanent legal team to deal with these issues alone. One thing’s for sure when they are sorted then DA will be addressed and no doubt will go on to outperform most other 2m repeaters in the UK as it has done for the last 20+ years and this will all be a vague distant memory. Patience is a virtue.
Typical reply from ERG.
The repeater cannot be classed as Operational. It’s meant to be a voice repeater, not a white noise repeater. You’re quick enough to set the status back to “Operational”, making it appear that all is well, when we all know it isn’t.
How about updating your members with a summary of what’s actually being done Joel? You may find we’re all a bit more forgiving and patient, if we feel something, other than damage limitation, is actually being done.
When is your next meeting please?
The theory suggested by Justin G0KSC is that the problem is ‘ringaround’ due to the GB3DA cavities being slightly out of tune, but this has not been confirmed by the ERG.
Last month, the Chairman of the Essex Repeater Group confirmed that they are still not sure whether the problem is with the equipment in the site building, or due to an external influence. GB3DA is housed at a site owned by Arqiva, and it is tricky getting access to the site. Apparently, getting access to the site could cost ERG up to £2000.
I honestly can not see that it takes all this time or £2000 to Access the Repeater Equipment.
I am going to contact Arqiva myself to find out as i have contacts in the company. all seems very Strange to me
I think really the repeater group needs to list that it is having issues. More so it shows up in a orange state not a green one. I am not sure the erg has made it clear why its not working nor them self said clearly what the hold up on repairing it is.
how about CE ?? or even RE, the latter repeater is strong enough to work on a handy from gosfield
Hi everyone ,
It will be a Shame to see the Monday Night net Axed for a while , Personaly i think that GB3ER has a much better coverage than GB3DA its much stronger with me than DA,And better Quality Audio as well
I wonder if its the Fact that people Dont like \change\ or they lack the Equipment to Access ??
We should be using 70cms as much as possible and the fact that DA is up the Spout just leaves us with GB3ER on 70cms for Essex Coverage.
Maybe a 2 weekly net on GB3ER is in Order as oposed to nothing …somthing is better than nothing !
If you have 70cms Equipment Why not use it…!!
Maybe if and When Da is Fixed unlikey from what i can see in posts we can have one week on 70cms and one week on 2m.
But for now Lets use 70cms on GB3ER if Possible
73’s de G0RNU
All fair points Neil, but the numbers for a GB3ER net have always been lower than on GB3DA. Also worth noting that this week, we had several messages from people saying they couldn’t get in to ER but could on DA, and also a struggle with two stations fighting to be heard on ER when they’re normally audible without a problem on DA.
We’ve run on GB3ER for a month, but when we end up with more people in the chat room than on the radio, and lots of people getting frustrated that they’re excluded… it’s time to wait for GB3DA to be fixed, or us to find a new home…
yep ok pete…no worries lets see what happens….
i have to agree with you about the numbers of stations on the net on 70cms allways less than on 2m ….i will watch developments
Bearing in Mind That ERG is a Non Profit Making organisation i forgot to add this. If it was a Private Mobile Radio / Cellular Company i Could Understand it….call made to my contact ill see what they can find out for me
I suggest someone who knows what’s going on, lets everyone who doesn’t know what’s going on – what’s going on… No point in having secret societies… At least the 99% who don’t know what’s going on will then be able to make a reasonable judgement… (I’m talking about the DA issues of course). Seems strange that no-one wants to make an official announcement – perhaps there’s bigger issues involved here ? I blame the Russians…
How about a 2m simplex net ? no need every week – but could be fortnightly & obviously publicised on EssexHam ?
We were given an update from the Chairman of the ERG last month at the Thames ARG club night – confirming that they’re not sure if the problem is external the site building or internal, and that they have no access to the equipment at present. No word on when (or if) they will get access, or what steps are being taken. I blame Keith Chegwin.
There has been some discussion about some of the ERG ordinary members going along to this month’s ERG committee meeting to see if they can get an update, which may possibly yield some answers…
My Question to the ERG is why is there no Access to the Equipment ??
What is the Basis of the refusal to access equipment from Arqiva??
A specific reason must be given from Arqiva !!
They need to apply for permission to be allowed access to the site which costs £2000 according to their chairman
its costs £2000 for access for a non profit making organization ?
I am not sure if i can belive this.
For me GB3ER i am not able to get in to from Loughton yet DA on a good day i could do on 5w but on other days 10w was needed. Even when i was near ER on a handheld before i could not get in to it.
I feel something needs to be better placed on the ERG website as it might help a few people chuck some money their way. I for one might not have the money for subs but i would happily forgo my £5 coffee drinking at work if it helped the ERG reslove DA as it has proven a life line in a situation a few weeks ago. but when they dont update their website or i would say neglect other users who belong to clubs outside the main essex areas as if i dont belong to them i dont know.
Can i have one of those £5 coffee’s i bet it keeps you going all day Mitch…lol
no i spend £5 on coffee at work. A rubbish burger van coffee can be like £1 and its so weak it takes 5 cups to even get to 1% coffee.
you carnt beat a good burger from a van !
Given that the ERG Chairman has said that ERG have no access to GB3DA at this time, what he is in fact admitting to is that the repeater is being run outside of the NOV holders terms and conditions to run such equipment. The NOV clearly states that in the event of the repeater malfunctioning or causing interference, the NOV holder, upon instruction from OFCOM, must be able to close the repeater down within two hours. I for one do not think that OFCOM will accept an excuse of \sorry but we can’t get into our equipment to comply with your instruction to shut down!\
I have already made the decision that this year I will not be renewing my membership of ERG, as I can count on one hand the number of days that GB3DA has not had issues since Christmas 2012. I will however gladly send my subscription to the Kent repeater group in Maidstone, whose 2m repeater has performed faultlessly for as long as I have been licensed.
Mark.
A real shame that the net has to end cos it was great listening in to you all each week. Pete can you change to a Kent Ham Net next week please
the Maidstone 2m repeater is always good. Wonder how much beer it take to get the keep to agree.
Maybe the reason that the Essex repeater group hasn’t updated their site for months is that they have lost the password and access to their website will also cost £2000???
Date for your diary
Representatives from the Essex Repeater Group will be at the Waters and Stanton Open Day in Hockley on Sunday the 28th of July 2013. They will be happy to listen to the comments and concerns of members of the Essex Repeater Group, and to provide a full update on the current status of their repeaters and the work that they are doing.
Members of the Essex Repeater Group Commitee also attend club nights in the area. Next meetings are Friday the 5th of July on Canvey and Friday the 12th of July in Gt. Baddow – If you would like an update on gb3da to be announced you can find a list of commitee members under Info on the ERG site.
Thank you.
Can an update not be posted on the ERG Website….this has to be the best option ??
So thats nothing at lefars or for the harlow club. Both in range of the ERG. Feeling like we are the forgotten part of essex.
I have been following this unfolding drama and thus far have resisted posting, however you all are getting so wound up and you are quick to point the blame at the ERG and Arqiva.
You are narrow minded fools and frankly you do no favours for the hobby.
GB3DA and GB3ER are suffering jamming everyday by individuals who’s sole aims are to make the repeaters unusable.
For example for 30 mins this morning someone in what was clearly a moving diesel van was clearly jamming intentionally on GB3DA very strong on the input in Hullbridge.
Stop the moaning and belly-aching and stop giving these individuals the ammunition they need to continue.
It also begs the question how many of you have donated towards the running costs of the repeaters, they are not free.
Geoff. G7 Hullbridge.
Geoff Please could you Kindly Retract your comment calling People “Narrow minded fools” its offensive!
There is no need to make such comments about anyone in this forum!!
Thank you Kindly
Thanks to everyone for the comments received so far. I didn’t expect quite this reaction to my post. Just a quick update to respond to some of the comments in this thread, and sent to me privately by email:
Alternative repeater: We have tried using an alternative repeater to GB3DA. GB3ER has been used 9 times since March, generally with low attendance. We have also experimented with GB3EA and use of Echolink, with no success.
ERG and Essex Ham: Essex Ham has been operating a net on GB3DA since October 2011, with the kind permission and support of the ERG. GB3DA has, until recently, served us very well, and we have been happy to pay for membership, attend AGMs, credit ERG in our nets, and show our support by linking to the ERG site (2nd highest referring domain!). Net controller Pete has been a paying member of ERG continually since 2010 (see below).
Staying with GB3ER: It has been suggested that we persevere with the low attendance on GB3ER. After 9 attempts, low turnouts, and many messages of disappointment, I think we can say that we have given GB3ER a fair try. Nice as it is to chat to the 3 or 4 people who turn up, for such a small group, a website, chatroom and net controller is a bit overkill, and if there is a desire to meet on GB3ER, then a simple round-robin ‘net would probably suffice. Should anyone else wish to take the reins and run a net on GB3ER going forward, I’ll be happy to promote this via Essex Ham, and take an active role in the net when possible. Please let me know.
Other repeaters: It has been suggested that we persevere with the low attendance on GB3ER, or move to GB3CE (70cm Colchester), GB3RE (70cm Maidstone), or GB3KN (2m Maidstone). I’m happy to explore all of these, but am conscious that doing so will exclude a percentage of our regulars. Should anyone wish to try an experimental net on one of the suggested repeaters, I’ll be happy to promote this via Essex Ham, and take an active role in the net when possible. Please let me know.
Again, many thanks for the comments, and indeed the messages of support. Fear not… the Essex Ham Monday Night Net will return at some point, when a suitable home can be found. In the meantime, please feel free to use our Essex Ham Forum to keep other Essex Hams up-to-date with what you’ve been up to. It’d be great to see some lively debate and chat in our rather quiet forum
Can do all those Except GB3CE Just for info pete
Well i have sent a email to the keep for GB3RE to see if he might be willing to let us try it on his repeater. I know its part of the KRP but its worth a go
Geoff,
Whilst I generally agree with your comments on this, there are a couple of different issues at play here, which merit discussion.
If, as you suggest, the last 5 months of poor repeater performance is solely down to persistent man-made abuse, then the right course of action, is as you say, to ignore it. Your implied proposal to the last four months of noise is that we all stop using DA and move off to other repeaters, so that DA goes unused and abusers will be deprived of an audience. Potentially, some time down the line, the abusers will evaporate and we can return to DA.
However, there are others who believe that the pattern and the persistent nature of the problem indicates that this is not the work of dedicated teams of organised abusers working around the clock to disrupt DA. Yes, there are the usual keyers, whistlers and idiots out there, but as has been discussed, some of the problems could be down to equipment, and a very plausible technical explanation has been offered, and not rejected by ERG.
If the problem was due to groups of abusers, then that would be relatively easy for ERG to confirm (by monitoring the input). The matter could be passed to AROS and the Essex Repeater Group could make a statement to that effect. However, the Essex Repeater Group appear to be struggling to get access to DA’s equipment, and are being very reticent to share information about what action is being taken, which could indicate that there is more to this than a team of abusers. There may be a good reason why the ERG and the NOV holders need access to the equipment. With respect, it would be narrow-minded to rule out an equipment issue completely at this stage.
Geoff, if you are 100% sure that there is no chance of an equipment problem here, then your plan of ignoring the situation, not discussing it, and letting DA go unused, is correct. However, if there is a fault somewhere, then group discussion could actually be useful and productive. It may lead to the uncovering of new information or suggestions, such as the cavity theory. Equally, there is merit in the public discussion of which alternative repeaters might best suit the local community. As I’m sure you’d agree, communication is what AR is all about, after all.
With regards to supporting ERG, some, myself included, may feel that paying supports might expect something more than a four-month-old vague acknowledgement of the problem. I agree with you that that DA’s users should contribute to the upkeep, but for how long should an individual pay to support a box in a locked room that no-one can access or maintain, and a group that doesn’t communicate with its members?
Personally, I can’t see ERG’s handling of this matter doing much to increase membership or encourage more people to support them, can you?
I look forward to your response Geoff.
I was very seriously thinking of joining one of the local repeater groups but im confused with recent events comming to light.
Nice to see a very well thought out & considered posting in response to a potentially insulting post (we are not fools…). Keep it civilised…
No-one has picked up on an extremely important point raised by Mark regarding the need for access under instruction from Ofcom. I have good knowledge of this requirement having operated a licensed transmitter, & this was a definite necessity. If access is not available, then at least arrangements should be made for the equipment to be turned off until all faults are identified & rectified – for the good of everyone’s reputation & in case of any further problems. After all – it’s only a hobby, & we’ll all live without a repeater for a while…
Jim
Just a quick comment about the shutdown “issue” – I believe that DA/ER can be controlled remote via DTMF (and the G8CUL logic certainly offers it) so I doubt site access is required to put the repeater/s to “sleep”.
Seems Arqiva are keen to assist radio amateurs…. Perhaps the Cambridge group should talk to them about DA.
http://www.cambridgerepeaters.net/2013/02/chairmans-note/
This is good news for Cambridge and maybe for other area’s too
Just how it Should be …well done for somone to see sence and the benifts of ham radio and what it can offer.
Non profit making organizations such as repeater groups or keepers should not be charged in the same way as a profit making one.