From 2004, UK amateur radio licences are in 3-tiers: Foundation, Intermediate and Full. Before then, it was the RAE (Radio Amateurs’ Examination). In response to recent online conversations, this page takes a quick look at the RAE and how it compares to the 2019 syllabus.
What was the RAE Exam?
From 1979 to 2003, this was a multiple-choice test (before then, it was a written exam. Until 1998, the paper was in two parts: Part 1 (Licencing conditions, interference, EMC), and Part 2 (procedures and theory). Candidates took both papers in a single sitting. If they failed one of the two papers, they wouldn’t need to take the other paper again. Between 1998 and 2002, the two papers were merged into a single paper.
The one-paper system ran from 1998 to 2003, when City & Guilds ceased running the RAE, leading to RSGB introducing Foundation, Intermediate & Full.
What was covered at RAE?
We looked at the last RAE Exam, the December 2003 RAE. and compared it to today’s syllabus:
- 52% of the RAE exam would be covered off in today’s Foundation
- 34% would today be classed as Intermediate
- 14%, mostly electronics theory, would fall under “Full”
Was the RAE easier than today’s exams?
From reviewing several RAE papers, yes, it would appear so – as demonstrated in the following table:
Based on our review of the December 2003 RAE, over half of the RAE questions were equivalent to today’s Foundation. Only 14% of questions fell into the “Full” category, meaning that under RAE, 11 Full questions were asked, compared to 60 today.
Back under RAE, several topics weren’t covered, including frequency synthesis, semiconductors, Software-defined Radios, Digital Voice, Digital Data, A-to-D conversion, Direct digital synthesis, Fourier transform, Data modes, Digital TV EMC, and other topics. Other sections, such as Safety, EMC and Operating Procedures were smaller under RAE, and there were no practicals.
From our article Getting a Full Amateur Radio Licence – Then and Now, by every other measurable criterion, getting a Full licence today is much harder.
| 2003 RAE 7650 Exam | 2022 Three-tier System | |
| Number of exams | 1 | 3 |
| Exam Fee | £29.50 | £97.50 |
| Exam Time | 2 hours and 15 minutes | 4 hours 30 minutes (excluding practicals) |
| Questions | 80 | 130 |
| Practicals | None | None since Covid (from 2003 to 2020, there were 20) |
| Syllabus | 8 sections | 10 sections. |
What of the RAE written exam?
One commenter below has referred us to his exam in 1973. We went back to the 1973 RAE paper to see how it compares to today’s exams.
Before 1979, the RAE was a single-paper eight-question written exam. It was almost entirely focussed on electronics and transmitter construction, as opposed to the broader syllabus introduced back in the 80s. This perhaps reflects that before the 80s, amateurs made their own homebrew transmitters, hence the focus on circuit design.
From reviewing the paper, you can immediately see that there were no questions on band plans, EMC, antennas, safety or operating procedures, and almost nothing on licensing – all topics that are mandatory today, even at Foundation! Of course, there were no practicals back then, and the syllabus has grown significantly since the 1970s. (A separate Morse test was required for a Full Class A – without that, you’d get a Class B).
The topics covered back in the 1970s would compare to sections 2 and 3 of today’s syllabus, which equates to just over 31% what’s asked currently for a Full licence. Most of the topics covered in this exam would be considered Intermediate-level today. As most radio amateurs no longer design and construct transistor or valve transmitters, it could be argued that this exam was for a different era in amateur radio’s history.
For those keen to check, here is a breakdown of the 1973 RAE paper:
| Q. 1 | Two questions: How to fill in a log, and the Supervision clause. This was 15% of the exam, and today would be two marks at Foundation (syllabus 1B1 and 7A5) |
| Q. 2 | VFO Stability – This is Intermediate-level (2I5) |
| Q. 3 | VFO Tuning Coils & Screening – VFOs and the basics of coils are Intermediate (2I5, 2D4) |
| Q. 4 | Phase and Impedance. 3 of the 4 items are Intermediate (2E2 and 2E3), with one Full (2E6) |
| Q. 5 | Transmitter box diagram. This would be equivalent to Intermediate box diagram in Table 3b today. Some sub-questions are Intermediate (buffer amp 3C2, filter 3G2), and some full (amplifier class 2I4) |
| Q. 6 | Basics of a transistor or valve amplifier? That’s Intermediate 2I3 and 2I4. Valves are now obsolete. |
| Q. 7 | Superhet. Some of this is Intermediate-level (3I) and some is Full-level (3I) |
| Q. 8 | Fading. That’s all Intermediate (5B3) |
| Q. 9 | Wavemeters are now out-of-scope. Closest would be checking for spurious emissions and harmonics (Intermediate 6D3) |
| Q. 10 | Balanced vs Unbalanced feeder and impedance – That’s Foundation (4A1 and 4C5) |
Given that candidates could pick their topics on the written test, it seems that a pass could be achieved on the old RAE written exam with the knowledge taught in just three of the ten sections of today’s Intermediate syllabus!
RAE 2003 Exam breakdown
If you’d like to check for yourself, here’s how we broke down the questions from the December 2003 RAE.
| RAE Question | Section | Foundation Syllabus | Intermediate Syllabus | Full Syllabus |
| 1 | Licensing | 7A5 | ||
| 2 | Licensing | 1G1 | ||
| 3 | Licensing | Obs | ||
| 4 | Licensing | 1A2 | ||
| 5 | Licensing | 4C3 | ||
| 6 | Licensing | 1A1 | ||
| 7 | Licensing | 7A5 | ||
| 8 | Licensing | 1A2 | ||
| 9 | Licensing | 1D1 | ||
| 10 | Licensing | 1A1 | ||
| 11 | Licensing | 1D2 | ||
| 12 | Licensing | 1A2 | ||
| 13 | Licensing | 1A2 | ||
| 14 | Licensing | N/A | ||
| 15 | Licensing | 1A2 | ||
| 16 | Licensing | 1A2 | ||
| 17 | Licensing | 1G1 | ||
| 18 | Licensing | 1G1 | ||
| 19 | Operating | 7A3 | ||
| 20 | Operating | 7A5 | ||
| 21 | Operating | 7C1 | ||
| 22 | Operating | 7E1 | ||
| 23 | Operating | 7B1 | ||
| 24 | Operating | 7A4 | ||
| 25 | Electronics | 2I1 | ||
| 26 | Electronics | 2H1 | ||
| 27 | Electronics | 2H1 | ||
| 28 | Electronics | 2G1 | ||
| 29 | Electronics | 2I3 | ||
| 30 | Electronics | 2J4 | ||
| 31 | Electronics | 2J3 | ||
| 32 | Electronics | 2I3 | ||
| 33 | Electronics | 3I3 | ||
| 34 | Electronics | 3I4 | ||
| 35 | Electronics | 3L1 | ||
| 36 | Electronics | 3C3 | ||
| 37 | Electronics | 2i4 | ||
| 38 | Transmitters | 3A3 | ||
| 39 | Transmitters | 6D4 | ||
| 40 | Transmitters | 3G5 | ||
| 41 | Transmitters | 3G1 | ||
| 42 | Transmitters | 3G4 | ||
| 43 | Transmitters | 3G2 | ||
| 44 | Transmitters | 3G1 | ||
| 45 | Transmitters | 6D4 | ||
| 46 | Transmitters | 3G1 | ||
| 47 | Transmitters | 3A3 | ||
| 48 | Transmitters | 3F | ||
| 49 | Transmitters | 3H4 | ||
| 50 | Transmitters | 3G1 | ||
| 51 | Transmitters | 3G | ||
| 52 | Transmitters | 3H | ||
| 53 | Transmitters | 3H | ||
| 54 | EMC | 6D1 | ||
| 55 | EMC | 3C | ||
| 56 | EMC | 6A4 | ||
| 57 | EMC | 6B2 | ||
| 58 | EMC | 6B1 | ||
| 59 | EMC | 6D1 | ||
| 60 | EMC | 6D1 | ||
| 61 | EMC | 6D1 | ||
| 62 | EMC | 60 | ||
| 63 | EMC | 6D1 | ||
| 64 | EMC | 4A1 | ||
| 65 | EMC | 6G1 | ||
| 66 | Electronics | 2G1 | ||
| 67 | Antennas | 4F1 | ||
| 68 | Antennas | 5A4 | ||
| 69 | Propagation | 5B2 | ||
| 70 | Propagation | 5B3 | ||
| 71 | Antennas | 4D1 | ||
| 72 | Antennas | 4C5 | ||
| 73 | Antennas | 4A3 | ||
| 74 | Antennas | 4C3 | ||
| 75 | Construction | 9A2 | ||
| 76 | Construction | 4C3 | ||
| 77 | Construction | 2J4 | ||
| 78 | Construction | 3C | ||
| 79 | Construction | 6D4 | ||
| 80 | Construction | 9A8 | ||
| TOTAL | 42 | 28 | 11 | |
| PERCENTAGE | 53% | 35% | 14% |
The RAE I took in December 1992 was considerably easier than the Full my wife took 5 years ago.
My questions were set by the City and Guilds so I only had to work out the answer.
The current exams you have to work out what the question wants you to answer and then answer.
This is the difference between exams set by professional bodies and exams set by clowns trying to be clever and catch people out.
I just looked at the RAE stats and May 1992 had the highest pass rate at 81.2% and the December 1992 had the 2nd highest pass rate at 80.5%.
Now I know why I passed as I had the 2nd easiest paper in the history of the RAE :)
Richard
The police promotion exams are exactly same. They arent questions set by professionals wanting to test your knowledge, they’re playground questuons set by people who think they’re clever by trying to catch you out. Perhaps they also work for the aRSe GB?
I sat (and passed at age 15) the written RAE in 1973. The status of passing this examination later enabled me to secure employment in my chosen career. I wonder if the current examinations (or quiz as someone once described them to me) could be used in the same way today?
Blah blah. Calling it a ‘quiz’ is typical of the attitude of some older amateurs. Very sad.
Hi David,
A lot has changed in the 47 years since you passed. I took a look at your paper from 1973 – Two mandatory questions, and the option to choose 6 of 8 topics to answer questions on.
The questions were almost entirely on electronics and construction (which fewer of today’s amateurs have the need to do), and some of the topics covered in that paper are now of course obsolete.
Interestingly, no questions on licence conditions, band plans, propagation, EMC, safety and operating procedures – all of which are mandatory today, even at Foundation. Of course, no practicals back then, and the syllabus has grown significantly since the 1970s.
The topics covered back in the 1970s would compare to sections 2 and 3 of today’s syllabus, which equates to just over 31% what’s asked currently for a Full licence.
As I recall the exam used to be in two parts and bot had to be passed. One was all about operating procedures, band plans, propagation, EMC etc. and the other was all about electronics and for the most part all the things a lot of amateurs didn’t even need back then let alone nowadays. No way was I taking my first radio apart although I did and still do build my own antennas.
The ” Quiz ” remark is really sad, you can put money on it that it’s from an old operator that would prefer the hobby die than encourage new people. I am going to put it into simple terms, the new exam structure is more expensive than the old exam. The new exam structure teaches more than the old RAE. The new exam structure is certainly not a give away and I argue takes more learning than the old RAE. Maybe its time we new Full’s (post RAE) take pitty on the old operators who collected shell stamps to achieve a Pass whilst fuelling up with 4 star * * * *
Ohh how the tables have turned! :)
The only problem with the article is that the license obtained under the old exam system was a B class not A class full license, and you were only allowed on VHF and above. You normally after a while of operating and learning Morse went on to obtain the full A class license. The first series of multiple choice across two papers did have a good selection of operating procedures and technical questions.
My understanding was that the RAE exam was applicable for both Class A and Class B – you still had to pass this exam, whichever class of licence you plumped for.
The aim here is to compare the top RAE licence of the day with the top RSGB licence today – sure, there were restrictions with a Class B licence back in the day, just as there were restrictions with the old Novice, and just as there are restrictions with Foundation & Intermediate today.
True, I did my RAE in 1996 then had to do my Morse for the A Licence, passed both and became M0BOC
Forty years on and people are still claiming to be superior because they took the written exam or got their Class A. I’ve just found the old papers here: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk/rae/index.htm. Questions about vacuum diodes, anodes, CRT, quartz crystal and frequencies written in Mc/s. Very relevant. And you could choose which questions you answered!
This page proves that it’s harder today than under RAE and when it’s in black-and-white, the old timers will still swear blind they’re superior.
Nice article and backs up what I’ve been saying for years… That the RAE was as easy as it has been. It also shows that the current exam criteria is far too much… Specially when compared with other TR61-02 signatories exams.
Agreed Billy, and researching this has highlighted just how hard Intermediate has become today.
Yes indeed, it was easier! I have taught the RAE (1990s) and the new system and have commented many times, that the RAE was easier; the pass mark was 40%+/- and the question bank, (in my opinion) was easier to commit to memory.
I sat the last ever Rae failed it have sat all three foundation. Intermediate and advanced exams I thought they were a tad easier than expected for me who is not technically minded at all. But.
Rae was based on an overall percentage of the full country percentage so if you fell bellow the percentage required you failed.
As I believe I was only 1 percent below the average in UK and failed.. Is this a fair way.
I prefer the newer exams. But shouldn’t we all have to study for the course on the same merit… Mm0gcf
I don’t see the point of this article – what is the purpose of it. It appears to me that this sort of discussion is divisive and fosters the attitude that I’m superior to you because my exam was harder than yours- the last thing the hobby needs because after all it is only hobby. My opinion is that if you want a radio amateur radio licence you need to pass the examination set at the time and it is irreverent that earlier examinations may have been easier. This principle has applied as long as there has been a requirement to pass an examination to obtain a licence. The technical advancement in amateur radio since I took the exam in 1972 is way beyond what could be imagined then but that is the nature of a technical hobby and as long as the hobby exists it will continue to evolve. At some time in the future the current examination requirements will also be considered to have been easy.
So let’s relax, chill out and enjoy the hobby whichever way you wish.
Hi Bob,
Happy to explain the background. We are running online training courses and we’re hearing that a high percentage of students struggling with Intermediate.
As you may know, Intermediate was made significantly more difficult when the RSGB updated the syllabus in September 2019. It was pointed out in our discussion group that, contrary to popular opinion, the Intermediate is now at the same difficulty level as the pre-2003 RAE.
A sensible approach to demonstrate whether or not this is the case, is to see how an RAE paper stacks up against today’s exams. We couldn’t find such a comparison, and factual information on older exams is hard to find.
As you’re probably aware, RSGB is working on a new RAE-like syllabus (so that people can go “direct to full”). It’s unclear whether RSGB will continue the trend of progressively making exams harder and the syllabus more complex.
I do agree though – the suggestion that today’s exams as equivalent to a “quiz”, as stated by one of the respondents, when they are demonstrably more challenging, could be seen as provocative.
I also agree about having fun with the hobby, although if the trend is to continue to make exams harder than they were for previous generations, going forward, that may result in fewer people being able to make the grade… unlikely to be good news for the hobby!
Hi Pete,
Thank you for the explanation. I do agree that the current examination requirements are tough and I also agree that there should be a direct route to a full licence. However, unlike the time when I took the exam the need for a high level of competency in the understanding of RF engineering is now very much greater due to the problems that emc management has introduced, this together with the forth coming inclusion of icnirp compliance requirements to the amateur radio licence will certainly raise the bar. Coming from a mobile phone network engineering background I am familiar with these issues and the problems they can cause. Consequently, it would be great if younger better qualified amateurs could offer technical help to older amateurs as and when needed. However, the ‘us and them’ attitude regarding the easiness of exams should be discouraged at all costs regardless of where it comes from because of its corrosive nature.
Hi Bob,
One of the key issues here is that so much has been added to the syllabus (for the reasons you’ve mentioned), that the syllabus is huge. It currently runs to 95 pages. Looking back on a paper from 1973 reveals that the focus was almost exclusively on homebrew design – next to nothing on band plans, licence conditions, EMC, safety, antenna theory, propagation, operating procedure, etc. With each revision, more is crammed in, but little is removed. Very few people design their own transceivers these days, but most of that 1970s homebrew content is still there.
You mention better-qualified amateurs helping older ones – in some cases that does happen – we often have returning amateurs taking our course, perhaps after a break of 20 years or so, for a refresher. Feedback is usually that the basic physics hasn’t changed, but there’s a lot more in terms of operating, licence conditions and EMC. Personally, I’m seeing a different problem – there are very few of the older amateurs willing or able to help to teach the newcomers at the Full level. Very few clubs teach “Full” these days, and most of the learning has been delivered online by the team from Bath, led by Steve G0FUW. The last syllabus update was so significant, that the Full course has been QRT for over a year to allow the changes to be made – it’s not expected to restart until 2021. If we’re still to teach 1970s homebrew in the 2020s, we’re going to need experienced people to teach it to the next generation – and there don’t seem to be many around.
As for the “us and them”, I totally agree – and the myths that today’s licences are given away free with cornflake packets, or (as per the second commenter) are little more than “quizzes”, are demonstrably a) untrue, and b) damaging. If a side-effect of this article is that it helps to debunk those myths, then so much the better.
The main point though is that progressively making the exams harder with each iteration has the potential to be pretty damaging. 20 years ago, the exam was a single paper, 80 questions in just over 2 hours. Now it’s 130 questions, 3 papers, 7 practicals and 4.5 hours of exam time. A syllabus update, and the RSGB’s new RAE-style exam are in the works, and no doubt more will be shoehorned in, including the likely Ofcom EMF licence and safety changes.
Back in the day, the RAE was regarded as a qualification – today, amateur radio is a hobby, and accordingly one might expect the exams to be getting generally easier, less rigid and more inclusive. A comparative review like this seems to indicate that the reverse is true, and shows the direrection of travel being towards increasingly harder exams. It begs the question “Is that a good thing for our hobby?”
Pete
Very well said. Clubs should print and pin this to a wall.
I must admit that seeing as the hobby already faces stiff competition from the Internet, Mobile Technology and the like it seems counter productive to make the exam any harder that it needs to me in order to operate safely and without interference with other services etc. The real learning should take place after the exam in my opinion. After all you pass a driving test but you are not expected to be an expert from day one. You just need to be safe and to be able to keep to the rules. We are in danger of killing off the hobby by making it either too elite. We should instead be thinking about how we make it accessible.
Regarding the “route to full”, here’s my experience. I did the EssexHam Foundation course in 2017, which went well for me. So then started with a local club to get the Foundation. I stopped after 5 weeks because of the painfully slow nature of the course. It was apparent it was going to take a very long time to get through the 3 tiers. Why was it painful? Well, when the 3 exams came online I did all three in just over two months (the only delay being booking an exam slot). I passed all three and am now a Full license holder. There are folks out there that would benefit from a “direct to full” route should it be made available. To be honest, all 3 in one day would be fine but I guess one exam covering all three would be better.
I couldn’t agree more Bob. I took the RAE in 68 and have never had a superiority complex. I joined two radio groups one for the intermediate exam and the other for the full. My only purpose in being a member of them is to help newcomers to the hobby to progress, and I must admit I really enjoy doing it.
I took the RAE essay-type exam in December 1975 and it was all about valves; I’ve never owned or built anything with valves in it, I’m scared of HT, so it was really just a case of learning facts to pass the exam, with little or no relevance to real-day operating and constructing (OK, there were some questions about licencing too). If the modern test is more representative of what people are actually going to encounter on-air, then that’s a good thing, but that it takes at least three times longer to get a Full (equivalent to old Class A) licence and costs three times as much is not. Also, the morse recognition test would put me off, as a former Class B licence holder I never have learned or used morse, and it’s never impinged on my enjoyment of the hobby, except that it takes me a while to work out which repeater I’m hearing when there is a lift on.
I think that people should be helping and encourage others, all this “I done the RAE” rubbish has gone on for years. Having passed my Full recently I spoke to another operator I know well telling them that I have enjoyed using the privilidges that come with my license such as 60 metres. I am fully aware it is an MOD band and that it has very small bandwidths of allaction and I both have and know my way around a band plan, the response was that it was not a very good place to start! Now I have been a licensed operator for over 6 and a half years, what do you mean by not a good place to start?
Constant sneaky remarks that belittle people and try to take away their thunder is not appropriate. The operator in question knows exactly how long I had held my license in total and just could not find it within himself to say congratulations.
He just had to belittle, maybe he thinks that people that are Full operators nowadays are incapable of using these extra bands.
Just to add aswell I looked up a callsign on QRZ the other day and guess what the profile pic was? A kellogs cornflakes cereal box with a sign on it saying “Free M6 License Inside” I shall leave you to guess what level of license this person has.
I took the RAE in 1982 when I was 16 years old and didn’t take the morse test until the early 1990s, my interest in radio in my early teens was responsible for my career in engineering. I have only come back on the air since the start of the lock down on March. One of my friends has recently taken his foundation and passed online, I tried some of the foundation and intermediate sample papers and I didn’t see a big difference in the difficulty level of the questions (I am well aware that it perhaps be that the topic areas are different for foundation and intermediate).
The main questions that threw me were ones regarding foundation or intermediate licencing conditions, and the odd one where more than one question was correct (Like many exams it’s not knowing the correct answer, but which one the examiner wants).
I understand what’s being said regarding more questions and a larger topic area, but at least someone who has passed the foundation will benefit with some hands-on experience before progressing and the same from intermediate to full. I think (certainly for me), there’s no better was to learn a subject than to have some hands on experience.
I think we all need to encourage as many keen people as we can to the hobby and helping where we can to pass on what we have learnt.
Kevin GW0PUH
If the exams are not easier what explains the hoards of illiterate scumbags that are now in the hobby?
Well done! You managed to demonstrate the type of attitude that’s damaging the hobby, and with only five errors:
1. Incorrect use of “name” field (this should contain a name)
2. Poor sentence structure: “Three hour written” (object ‘exam’ omitted)
3. “cw” written in lowercase, when an acronym should be uppercase, e.g. “CW”
4. Poor spelling “hoards” should be “hordes”
5. Poor punctuation: there should be a comma after “easier”
73 OM
Your response saddens me. It is precisely the presumption that the hobby is and should remain elite is driving the hobby into the ground. Soon it will be dead and buried unless we wake up and realise that it is just radio. It is not rocket science and you shouldn’t need a degree to operate it.
It is ironic that a complaint about illiteracy should contain the word ‘hoard’ when ‘horde’ was clearly intended. It may be a troll, but clearly a ridiculous one.
hoisted…tee hee
still think “hoards” is right though…..you are just being pedantic …….
> “still think “hoards” is right though…..you are just being pedantic …….”
“Horde” – a large group of people.
“Hoard” – a stock or store of money or valued objects
Do you still think “hoards” is right?
By the way:
1. Your sentence didn’t start with a capital letter
2. It’s missing the subject “I”
3. The ellipses should be three dots, whereas you appear to have used five or six.
4. Ellipses should be used to mark an omission or to indicate a pause in a sentence, and two in a sentence is not good practice
73 OM
slap me you will have a ball with all those hammy mens morons….enjoy
Once again, impressively poor written skills for someone so keen to be critical of the writing skills of others. I guess grammar and literacy standards way back when you took your G4 were a little different. Still, a pass is a pass! Now off you pop back to Usenet where you can continue your trolling.
73 OM
ok mate just talking in a language they will understand mate minted
Well, now that you’ve demonstrated your level of literacy and how tolerant owners of GM4 callsigns are towards the English, how about posting something will a little more substance on the subject under discussion? Would that be possible?
73 OM
my favourite words in hammy mens adverts are these….”bass transciever much sort after with duel band ariel” …..tee hee…just as well the multiple choice has the answers with the question that is what happens when you leave school at fifteen with no qualifications …..
no chance mate wouldn’t waste my time
I will just watch you all trying to justify what you have done to a once fine hobby in the name of inclusivity and the “I want it now now now culture…..
QUOTE —- “I will just watch you all trying to justify what you have done to a once fine hobby in the name of inclusivity and the “I want it now now now culture…..” —-QUOTE
What do you mean by inclusivity? Did you not read the part which states it is now more difficult to pass the Full exam?
And the Now Now Now culture comment? There are a total of 3 tests today not one test where you pick what questions you wish to answer! Go and wet your hands and play with you’re valves, do everybody in the hobby a favour. I bet you are a fantastic self appointed band police man aswell.
Makes me sick to think there is people like you in this world, its 2020 mate not 1940.
Don’t waste your time Joe. A clear sign that this OM hasn’t read the article, can’t string a viable argument together and is lashing out that it’s been proven today’s exams are harder than under RAE. It’s sad that there are still people like this around, but they’re a dying breed. Best not to feed the trolls.
you sound like a dx commander fan mate ….bet you have a boom mic a big burner pick your nose and broadcast just like him….or perhaps you idolise soy boy carl? waving his hands in the air or is it big fat mikey you love …youtube influencers all demonstrating what a bunch of {Offensive Remark Removed by Moderator at 17:49 on 01-Dec-20 (Ref: 217381)} you all are…..I want the FL now now now tick a few boxes on line at home get a toy licence that gives you all you want with a fly 100w or more and still working tripple five….. {Offensive Remark Removed by Moderator at 17:49 on 01-Dec-20 (Ref: 217381)} …..
I aquired my so called “toy license” almost 7 years ago and have progressed to Full thanks, undoubtedly putting more time and energy into the 3 tier licences than you ever had to, I didnt choose which questions I wanted to answer and indeed sat practical tests which is a dam sight more than you!
Eh you seem to know all the YT influencers maybe you’re just in the closet mate, when it eventually comes out that you do indeed like the YT crew we will all be here to support you!
I love DX Commander and many of the other influencers such as Tim G5TM and Carl M0SZT. I think it is a little less sad than sitting on forums all day slagging other people off, maybe you need to find some love in your life?
Anyway I am off back to play with my HF set might even run a full 400 watts in your honour, just to work the world with my modern day license…
I have never worked triple 5 and got no interest in CB, on the other hand I respect the guys that do use it and I can’t guarntee that I may not use it in the future and maybe even enjoy it. We are all equals mate.
Remember no need to unplug your set when your messing with your valves there old chap, and for god sake wet your hands!!
73’s ( and NO it is not a refrence to your age)
glad you acknowledge your licence as a toy one and I’m glad you made it through spoon fed at every level with the answers in front of you and that you were forced to use a soldering iron that you might have never used…so I was spot on about your youtube heros then you sycophant you..bet you love all those boom mics, broadcasting “stars” all the two letter personal and grave robbed callsign …..and with regard to who is supporting who bet you donated to the xl commander … unbelievable fifteen grand to keep him in business……yes go and play with your big burner command the dx next step is 555 I guarntee (sic) tee hee and I hope it’s a transistor one …. I have seen what happens when you lot plug a 12v radio into the mains…tee hee……88’s soy boy
I love all the new blood that has came into the hobby since the Foundation Licence and I talk to my local MM3 MM6 and MM7 ‘S all the time on 2m as anybody up here can hear. It is a joy to see them all progress to achieving the full licence and I can forgive them still operating 27.555 Mc/s even after getting their Advanced. All the people who pass should be congratulated and perhaps should be issued with recycled G2 G3 G8 and G4 callsigns, after all callsigns are just an identifier and I am sure a G8 plus three would not be frowned upon by right minded people. All Licences should be issued with at least 400w ipower to better reflect reality and 27Mc/s should become a new ham band as we used to have it and it is used by freebanding Licensees anyway. Ham radio should reflect what is happening in the world and perhaps there should be no exams required to get a Licence like that country whose name escapes me . Anyway lets all enjoy the hobby with our lovely bought equipment and ignore all the professionals who think you shouldn’t do that. Nothing has really changed and when I came on in 1974 with an FT101MK1. I was lambasted for not building my equipment but the people who did that to me were electronics professionals. All the bounce ups in the hobby originated with the class B Licence which was taken out by professional technicians who said they weren’t interested in HF and only wanted a v/uhf radio telephone and be able to experiment with radio. But then 7,000 of them went for an M3 when HF became available without cw things just went downhill from there. Basically people just want to do what they want to do in the hobby without let or hinderence and Licensing whould give them what they want. 73
One point that has been missed perhaps apart from the fact that answering six out of eight questions was replaced by being given the right answer in front of you in the multiple choice is the off putting effect that the exam venue has on take up of the hobby. The old witten and multiple coice City and Guilds RAE used to be taken at Colleges etc but the Foundation etc was held at clubs. Now a club atmoshere is more condusive to helping calm the nerves of someone with no formal education or has been out of the education system for years. Not to mention the strong rumours that because all the new ham clubs that sprung up at the time doing the tests were incarnations of old CB clubs and that they were letting their buddies though. This also happened with the 12wpm CW tests which used to be taken at The Board of Trade or a Coast station. I took mine at the Glasgow Board of trade in ’74 in the Gorbals and it was very intimidating experience even after six months of morse practice. When the tests were then subsiquently carried out by Peer examiners suddenly all the class Bs who wanted to get on HF for years suddenly got full class A Licences, Now this could have been because somebody local to you in the hobby that you might know was less intimidating or it could have been the bottles of Whisky that changed hands so the rumours go. So I think it is not so much dumbing down that has brought more people into the hobby but it is more the friendly relaxed nature of the way it is done these days that has helped. Now with the test being carried out at home on your own compurer without practical testa it had become the ultimate unintimidating sinario with no chance of cheating.
I beg to differ. Yes, the club environment is different to formal evening classes at a local college, but not necessarily in a good way. On club-driven courses, there are usually a lot more amateurs present (not just one tutor), which can be more intimidating. Students are subject to a number of practical tests which didn’t exist under RAE, so there is a greater likelihood of making a fool of yourself in front of more experienced peers and other amateurs. Clubs are not always the most welcoming of environments either, and facilities aren’t always up to college-standards. Exams under the new system can be equally intimidating. The opportunity for cheating is very low as there are multiple invigilators present during exams, multiple random inspections, and computer marking. Online exams have been around for a couple of years now pre-dating COVID, and these are far more tightly-controlled and monitored. Add to that, exams now are twice the length that they were in your day nearly 50 years ago, and there are 3 exams, not one (not great for those uncomfortable with exams). Coupled with a far more extensive syllabus, numerous practicals and far more to remember, today’s exam experience is far tougher overall than what many experienced in the last century.
In case you guys were not aware, at least two of the posters are regulars in a rather toxic group called uk.radio.amateur, which is home to about half-a-dozen old and rather bitter RAE-era people who spend much of their time insulting each other, impersonating others and being critical of anything to do with the hobby that happened after 1979. Normally they keep themselves to themselves, but the suggestion that new licensees have harder exams than back in their day goes against their core beliefs and has generated over 50 messages in their groups. You’re seeing the over-spill, as they don’t like to see proof in black-and-white about today’s exams being tougher than under the older regime.
Information on one of the posters can be found here: {Link Removed by Moderator at 17:45 on 01-Dec-20 (Ref: 217390)}
The fact that they are unable to provide any useful or productive comment, just a stream of insults, matches their usual modus operandi, and further demonstrates the level that they operate at and also that newer licence-holders are a lot more tolerant, better-behaved bunch that are able to be better ambassadors for the hobby than a subset of their more senior counterparts. As they like nothing more than conflict and trying to provoke an argument, the best advice is to simply ignore them. They’ll soon get bored and return to their bickering and abusive little usenet group, whilst the rest of the amateur community goes about its business.
Enough please. Threads like this do not reflect well on amateur radio, and remarks raised by some contributors are not appropriate.
This thread is now set to moderation and only on-topic, non-abusive submissions will be allowed.
It was very interesting seeing a good comparison between then and now, and to see just how difficult it is to get the full ticket today. It wasn’t a walk-in-the-park for me in 1998, but it looks a lot harder today.
To me this shows that the exams need to be relaxed to bring them inline with reality and be made as relevant as possible.
It also shows that those who constantly moan that today’s students have it easy, are mistaken. Shocking to see such poor behaviour from those who have forgotten how to act in a civilised matter and respect their fellow radio amateurs.
After a break of – 30 years I m getting back into mobile operating and playing with my dads old gear and some newer black boxes . Can’t believe this elitist attitude still exists . I did the RAE at age 14 and thought it was rock hard studying only from a book written in a very technical non friendly way . Was over the moon getting my G6ICZ call sign only to be stuck on vhf . Only knew enough morse for the repeaters but loved playing with bits of metal making aerial bits etc . Enjoying playing with the gear in the garage and the aerial on a mag mount on the garage door, not expecting miracles though . I’m a dinosaur on the new stuff of digital etc but as said above it’s a hobby so let’s just keep calm and carry on . I’ll put the padded jacket on just in case of any offence . Cheers all .
I totally agree with Pete, some of the comments do not reflect well on amateur radio. The exam system is what it is, and does change over time as one would expect. How about encouraging people who are coming into the hobby, giving them a hand up ? And if they want to take on some responsibility and help run events or their local club why not ! Different people have different skills and backgrounds and should be accepted with open arms. Welcome to the hobby I say. Regardless of what system is in place if the “old hands” are negative this will certainly put newcomers off big time and the hobby won’t have the benefit of new ideas, new people and wonder why in astonishment their club has closed.
I just wanted to add that I think its great that people can now take the Foundation Exam online from home. We need more people operating plus it keeps the hobby going, although the VHF/UHF bands have become silent in recent years, even DMR is quiet for the most part. HF will always be alive and kicking for sometime yet but we are desperate to get the upper bands going again so the more people coming into the hobby the better.
You have to sit the exam in the format imposed at the time you do it. There is no choice involved, so there is no point in treating some people as second-class citizens as a consequence. They did not get to choose easy or hard options, whatever versions you consider easy or hard.
I’m not sure counting questions and categories tells the full picture, there is still room for questions to vary in difficulty. Sitting down to write essays on transmitter architecture and valve circuit operation from cold wasn’t easy in the day, but people passed.
Having lost the documents, when I got interested again in the 1980s, it was easier to just do the RAE again. This time it was the multiple choice version, but I’d built a career in RF engineering by then, so I’d become an atypical candidate, I suppose. Was it easy? Was it a breeze? No! most questions I could go through very quickly, but some stumped me. Which was the right answer? Um, for some of them all four options were true – even the ‘silly’ one. I had to figure out what someone at City & Guilds, with a somewhat limited understanding, would think was the most right one. I’d easily got enough I was happy with to expect a pass, but I wanted to get them all if I could. I left with the conclusion that the exam was fit for its purpose, but that the quality of some questions was dodgy. It was less demanding on O-level style essay writing, but it ranged over somewhat more subject matter, and it was harder to dodge your weak areas.
I then did the Morse test and got a GM4 callsign. I notice several categories of radio amateur have been criticised earlier in the thread:
Yes, I’m a professional.
Yes, I have a GM4 prefix.
Yes, I date back to the essay RAE.
Yes, I did the multiple choice variant.
Yes, I did the Morse test in Glasgow.
I think that ticks all the boxes. Were they talking about me?
The technical stuff is still in the exam because an amateur radio licence allows you to not only go on the air with commercial equipment, it also allows you to go on with equipment that you have designed and/or built. You are responsible for its suitability and cleanliness. Amateur radio is the one field where equipment does not have to be type approved. This is a valuable freedom for many of us, and it hinges on that content in the exam – in the eyes of the legislators.
I think the current three-level system is more complex than it needs to be. A number of questions in the different three exams are spent asking for knowledge about the differences in the three levels themselves!
The purpose of an RAE at all is to keep the government happy. They want something in place that acts to prevent people with insufficient knowledge firing up powerful and perhaps home made transmitters and causing problems. They want something they can present to other countries showing that they’re doing a reasonable job of controlling access to shared amateur bands.
C&G did this for them for many years. The RSGB put themselves in a position where they had to look like they were doing at least as thorough a job as what went before. They went a bit further so that they didn’t have to prove equivalence in great detail. They wanted their approach to be easily acceptable for the best chance of being accepted.
The three level structure seems to have been designed around a young candidate. It seems to work for them. However, I do know a number of serious electronics people discouraged by it. They’d have gone for an all-in-one exam, but they viewed the three level structure as including too much artificial hoop-jumping and I did hear the phrase “Early learning centre” mentioned once or twice. Much as the full-on essay version could discourage some people in its day, the current structure discourages others. For the survival of the hobby, we need all the people we can get.
So, I’m glad to hear that an alternate, all-in-one (Onesie?) format is being considered as an option. It will help some people. The three-level structure helps others. Just so long as people get to a standard where they can operate without causing problems, the fundamental purpose of licensing is being met.
I got a lot out of amateur radio in the sixties, including a long-term career. I’ve been trying to put some back. It seems important. It seems fair.
David
When I were a lad, we had to build our wirelesses out of pebbles, lichen and twigs. They were prone to bursting in t’ flames due to t’ pebble-lichen ignition situation. If there were a shortage o pebbles, we had to use sun dried mud mixed up wi pampas grass specially imported from t’ Americas.
Din’t need no blerry morse code in them days, cos radios din’t work anyway.
I’m ere all week
VII III’s
At work (non radio) there is a need to stay current for a particular competence.
The initial qualification is classroom based over two days. Recertification is done online. The way the questions are posed could be considered a bit “naughty”. One question I answered a incorrectly was poorly researched. You had to indicate if TIME should be communicated phonetically and I said yes (under certain circumstances it’s critical). I also believed my answer to be correct because spelling time phonetically, though not considered mandatory would actually go beyond what was required – not necessarily incorrect?
I’ve been switching my reciprocal to a UK license by passing through Intermediate & Full exams and I also happened to have a very old copy of the RAE exam booklet with loads of test questions. To be honest, the level was approximately the same with some changes in the syllabus thanks to the advancement of the times. I sat through 6-7 RAE exams and both old and new syllabus RSGB mock exams and the rates of the mistakes were pretty much the same – all pass rates by the way, never failed a single mock exam.
And now I’ve done the real thing too – to be honest if you know your stuff, if you don’t panic then it’s not hard to pass.
I’ve had bad experiences with clubs in my youth so I refuse to be a member of, or even get involved with any club as a principle. This had made me not bother switching my old reciprocal license to a full UK license for years because I had to go and get involved with people.
Add clubs not being readily available, and only providing training certain times a year, and then the COVID-19 situation, it is just not feasible for some. My wife pondered about interest for years but wouldn’t attend a club training 20-30 miles away regularly.
The new online system works a wonder, you can self-study, book an exam, pass it and you’re done. Works a treat. Now she’s got a foundation license and I’ve got my full UK one too.
The only thing that’s hard for a Foundation exam is if you don’t have a mentor, things are hard to comprehend.
I took my 3 exams last year in pretty quick succession and I learnt a lot. Learning materials have improved massively in the last 30 years. Online videos, training platforms, blogs and the published syllabus materials are of a much higher standard and in formats that make learning easier for all. I know the topic of which exam was/is easier keeps occurring but if we are trying to discover who has higher knowledge then the exams are only the start of the journey. Extended knowledge is gained over time and not with a bit of paper. So having done the exams in 8 months from home I’ve learned enough so that I’m not dangerous plus an appreciation of what I don’t know. I pretty sure the RAE exams produced the same and thus to all intents and purposes are equivalent.
I have just had a bloke on Facebook Block Me – he was moaning about RTTY being used on the FT8 bands – I explained that maybe instead of complaining he should recognize the band plan does not give FT8 sole rights to the digital area and perhaps he may wish to try RTTY…. – He accused me as being condescending to him and i should respect him because he passed the RAE in the 80s…not the type of person I wish to further communicate with
G8JMK
As an oldtimer who took the C&G RAE, I consider anyone who holds a Licence to be my equal. They may have taken a different route into the Ham community due to differing interests but the result is the same.
Despite my age and being ex Royal Signals I have never felt the need to take a Morse test, does this mean I get less respect on the air, I have never found it to be so. Why would anyone wish to discriminate against a newcomer to the hobby, welcome them and help with advice when asked….
._._.
Hi Dave. Exactly as it should be. We all started as beginners at some point, and progressed through whatever route happened to be in place at the time. This is a hobby, and I struggle to understand the logic of those who won’t help newcomers or think that anyone who didn’t pass a written exam or build their own transmitter is some kind of inferior being. The hobby’s changed and evolved, and hopefully will continue to do so for many more years. 73, Pete
As a Class B holder brought up in the days of GB3SL, The hobby was full of factions & users rubbishing one another. I gave up in ’83.
Decided recently to revisit the hobby and maybe consider recovering my license. I discovered two things.
A: The bands are mostly dead, with far less users on air than my day.
B: The rubbishing factions have moved to the internet.
Now, and help me out here, is it really worth me sending off my 20 quid to Ofcom to recover my old license. It’s not looking good thus far.
(I hope for the pedants my gramma and speeling is ok)
I have only today learned that a Direct to Full license consultation is ongoing. Thanks EH, for publicizing that.
Some people think equality is treating all people the same, but it isn’t. It is answering all people’s needs equally, and that is why Direct to Full is a good idea. The three-tier system does not recognize that some people have, perhaps through work-based learning, possess much of the knowledge required to obtain an Amateur Radio license and that, for them, the breaking-up of demonstrable knowledge and understanding into 3 exams is unattractive and unnecessarily time-consumimg,
The three-tier system will, I hope, continue as it is now, a route into the hobby for anyone, of any background, who desires to bcome an Amateur. But in addition, I hope an RAE for electronics engineers etc of New Twenties can help boost our numbers at Full level.
Well, I found the Foundation exam easy enough and I will book the Intermediate soon.
I haven’t looked at the full syllabus yet; I’ll get to that when I get to it. I have a goal to be fully licensed by the end of 2021. We’ll see.
I think that the introduction of the Foundation step was a good idea to get people started in the hobby.
I agree with Pete regarding the unusual modern day penchant of making exams harder as time passes. It makes no sense if we wish to preserve a hobby. The biggest emphasis, (in my opinion) should be on operator etiquette. It plays an important role in this hobby and ensures that it does not descend into something considered anti-social, a fate which quickly befell CB operators due to there being no strictly adhered to gentleman’s rule. Licensed operation still commands respect by many – if standards slip operators become sloppy. The general public feeling turns against us, and Ofcom will restrict everything with the drop of a hat. To prevent this, we need two things – 1) exam emphasis on decent operator behavior, 2) strength in numbers to lobby against restrictions to our bands.
It’s taken all of 2 years since this post and it looks like Ofcom are fielding opinions on proposed changes to the licensing system( there is currently a consultation underway, responses to be received no later than 04/09/23). However, reading between the lines the proposed changes appear to be very much due to pressure from the RSGB. Components used for the construction of rt equipment are significantly more uniform in construction these days and their characteristics. are such that the risks of possible interference are reduced significantly. The examination should ideally focus on proper etiquette ant operational procedure. Otherwise this hobby will go the way of CB radio with natural disasters on the increase worldwide communication by radio May in some instances be the only viable means of coordinating search and rescue.
So rsgb lovers out there , ask whether sitting an exam is attracting the right people ? I suppose there has to be some entry criteria we have to also make the hobby popular right ? I am a professional engineer ( in an excellent position in industry) and chartered. Having gained an interest in radio I thought I would go for my foundation … but I failed . Hell I have a degree in electronics but that counts for nothing … you failed the exam sir … sorry you’re not elite like us … well that’s how it feels . I have contacted the rsgb to try and instigate some common sense , things like a free re take if your close , I scored 17/26 so was two marks off… like ‘sliding doors’ my future is changed forever but why ? All because of an exam which really is nothing to do with radio more a test of what you can remember and took the enjoyment out of the hobby .. with too many career and family commitments I have walked away relegated to pmr and mid band lol but at least those bands are busy … so long … how many out there are like me I wonder
If you haven’t done the work, then no wonder you failed. Foundation is a very basic exam designed to get new entrants quickly qualified. Unlike Intermediate and Full that are designed to test applied knowledge, especially at Full.
I have no electronics or technical background, yet I passed all three exams at the first attempt. It wasn’t easy for Full, it was a lot of hard work. Preparation is key.
Here is a link to the old written RAE exams. I passed with a merit in the boring part and a distinction in the technical part before my O levels in 1975. I finished the exam in 40 minutes so it did seem very easy DE G4ELD https://www.g4dmp.co.uk/rae/